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Harley-Davidson denies warranty claim for man who’s ridden 2.5 million miles…but why?!

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MILWAUKEE (WITI) -- He's ridden a Harley-Davidson motorcycle for more than 2.5 million miles -- most likely more than anyone else in the world. But now, this Marine Corps veteran is fighting the very company he loves so much.

"If you initiate that wave, you`d be surprised how many people return it," Dave Zien said.

As he rides his Harley-Davidson across the country, Dave Zien is constantly getting noticed as the flags on his bike flutter in the wind.

"Very, very few people give me the finger and when they do I say 'God bless you' or I`ll give them the Harley Hallelujah with both hands high in the air," Zien said.

Now, the Marine Corps veteran, who has ridden more than 2.5 million miles on a Harley-Davidson is giving the iconic company the "Harley Hallelujah."

"I mean Harley-Davidson this is ludicrous. The mystique and heritage of Harley-Davidson is suffering," Zien said.

While he was riding in Dallas in March, Zien's clutch went out. So he made a claim because his bike is under warranty.

"They tell me 'because you fly flags, you`re blocked. You`re black ball listed. You could never get any warranty work -- which is unlimited mileage for seven years because you`ve been flying flags,'" Zien said.

Zien's flags are held by mounts attached to his bike.

FOX News says Harley-Davidson believes the flags cause drag on the engine and transmission and the mounts that hold the flags aren't Harley-Davidson products -- so they denied his warranty claim.

"For heaven sakes! They were put on by a Harley-Davidson dealer and technicians. So that null and voids that argument," Zien said.

Even though Zien isn't getting his warranty honored for this claim and is unhappy with the decision -- he's still a Harley-Davidson man.

"Ain`t nobody -- ain`t nobody going to stop our flags. Not even corporate Harley-Davidson. We`re going to continue flying flags," Zien said.

Zien, who is from Chippewa Falls, says he's "heart and soul" Harley-Davidson -- despite this situation.

The company says his claim was denied because the bike wasn't designed to deal with the wind resistance that the flags create.

But the warranty is still intact.


    • Rob pokallus

      Then you would have to help out every rider.and every rider should be treated the same. And that is good business.

  • Craig

    Quit your crying. Just because you are wrecking your ride with those sails shouldn’t get you any special treatment. You love Harley but don’t expect them to treat you any differently than any other person using their ride for purposes that fry the clutch. Next, somebody will expect Harley to cover repairs after they participate in a burnout contest or tractor pull. Just pay the piper and trim that darned beard before it blinds you and you kill someone.

    • Kat

      Amen! You’d think that since he is a vet, Harley would replace it with no questioned asked. They’ll store a soldier’s ride when he’s out fighting but not help one that has already fought?!?

    • Jay Bo

      How the hell would flags burn the clutch up? There’s a law that states to deny warranty coverage they must prove that your modification is what caused the failure.

      • Rand

        I am trying to get my head around this. Would a flag cause more drag than two riders on the bike instead of one? What about a windshield? Fairing? Add to this, is HD saying that their franchise dealership has no liability even though by carrying the product, they are de facto endorsing it? And the dealership installed it?

        If all of this is so, this is NOT the Harley Davidson I used to know.

      • Shelton Beach

        First thought: I don’t really think he’s ridden two and a half million miles. That’s over 4,000 miles a month for 50 years. Second thought: If flying two flags creates enough drag to burn out a Harley clutch, I’ll stick with my Honda.

    • Brian

      Wow, you have a lot of pent up anger Craig. You must drive a vespa and still live with your parents. Happy riding !

    • Your Daddy.

      Craig, your a #umb#ss!. How about you educate yourself before opening your ignorant #ick s#ckers on an issue you know nothing about !o#chebag!!!

    • Ray

      WOW, two flags burn out the clutch, well at last count I have owned 36 different bikes, probably half of them carried two people and pulled a trailer and I have yet to burn out a clutch because of that, but only two of them were Harley. Come on Harley step up to the plate and do the man right.

    • Ben

      Craig, when someone serves, as you obviously have not, something inside of them changes forever. That you rode a pedal bike once does not make you a biker, just a little sissie boy. Now go upstairs because your mommy called you for supper.

    • Rufus

      Coward that would not join the armed forces in the first place if war was declared you probably run the other way hide under a rock , there is no way that a damn flag would cause clutch to go out they should keep their word and honor their warranty,vet, or no vet.

  • jack

    forget the warranty, if i owned harley davidson i would give the guy a brand new bike with flags installed by harley so he could ride another million miles, he’s a real biker, not the guy who rides one year drops the bike in the driveway and his biking days are over, put him in a commercial, he would be great for an advertisement

  • tony nelson

    those flags do not cause enough drag to burn out the clutch.. geeezz . i have seen the flags on the Harley.. Harley is getting cheap.. not made nearly is good as in the 60-70..maybe a lot of parts from other countries

  • Walter Sturgeon

    Harley didn’t do your maintenance, the dealer did! Big difference. Also if you knew anything about physics you could understand that the drag that 2 flags add to the bike is more than your 300 lb girlfriend.

    • Branden

      Theres no way a flag or even 2 flags is pulling that much drag, They are set up and flying with the wind its not like there set up like sails.. I just cant believe HD would even go public with something like this. I would think this would be awfully embarrassing if your bike cant handle having a flag on it. What are you building these days HD?

  • Raymond Old Fart

    This reply is to all the sarcastic comments made by a bunch of uncaring most likely non veteran RICHARD HEADS, Harley spends more moeny trying to void warranty’s than they do in fixing issues in same manner as Govt. spends more cash trying to deny Vet’s V.A. Benefits than it would spend if they just took care of the Vet’s rather than let the V.A. administrators kill them.

    • Gordon Laing

      Equal to any ‘non-American bike’. Well that is a bit of a silly comment if ever I read one. HD are good bikes, always have been and they are popular but they are not equal to all non-American bike manufacturers – I would hazard a guess that the comment you made was one made out of patriotism and a love of Harleys. I ride Triumph because they are British – I’m on my 12th Triumph (out of 50+ bikes I have owned) but I am happy to say they are not superior to the big four Japs or even some Italian manufacturers.

  • SteveM

    Are you out of your tiny mind ? How can you agree with a decision like this ? Corporate mind games to save a few dollars. I’m a Brit. We see this all the time. HD is getting a worldwide reputation for dodging it’s responsibilities, and marketing poor quality products. It’s a great shame for one of the best bikes ever made. Even worse is denying some help to a vet. No wonder so many are turning to other makes. Very, very sad. It may not be the biggest priority in some peoples lives, but it’s just another symptom of the moral, and political decline of our once great nations. We need to take our countries back.

      • Red Mayo

        Not knocking you Walter, I’m just curious though, do you work for Harley in any way? Just trying to understand your perspective better.

      • Brian

        So, if you buy a pickup or car and put running boards, bug deflector, or other misc. parts on it, it voids the warranty…I call BS!!

      • John

        Hey Walter I’m a vet and I have owned a Harley since 1977 my first was a dirt bike . Harley does try to avoid wrty. Work all the time I bought a new ultra in 13 had a problem with the chrome coming off the front wheel and the stitching on the seat . The bike had less than 3,000 miles on it and only 5 months old . Thanks to my wife who is an attorney wrote them and the dealer a letter to educate them on there wrty. My bike was at the shop for three weeks . Now that’s how they really work . The flags caused no more resistance on the bike than a loaded trailer behind it . I also understand wind resistance see I flew for the U.S. Navy for 9 years Harley should have fixed the bike anyway it’s a write off for them and that’s only good business !!!!!

    • itinerate biker

      The way to start taking our country back is to support American vets and American workers. That would entail stopping buying foreign made motorcycles or cars, etc.

      • Conker

        So what you’re saying is we should settle for junk? Fock harley, I laugh at all you fools that buy one.

  • Gregg L.

    So you believe that flying flags creates more drag on a bike than a couple of ultra heavyweight riders so often seen on Harleys? Would you agree with HD if they voided the warranty because of obesity? We’re talking about a 1400+ CC bike, not a 250CC Honda Rebel.

    • Walter Sturgeon

      The flags fly higher than the riders do. A cup of water pulls your arm down as much as a bucket of water on your shoulder. It’s physics. The flags completely destroy the aerodynamics of the motorcycle. The windshield is there to help direct the airflow over the rider(s) but it does nothing for the flags.

      The mods were aftermarket which were not approved by HD. If you purchase nearly anything and modify the item, it voids the warranty. The item at that point is not being used as it was engineered and therefore is subject to failure.

      • gordie563

        Walt – you strike me as one of those annoying internet trolls who gets pleasure out of making controversial comments. I have seen these things pulling trailers full of camping gear and carrying two riders – and lets admit it, most Harley riders and passengers are rather weighty. To say that adding 2 flags will affect the clutch adversely enough to destroy it is just silly and will do nothing to help the company’s quickly diminishing PR.

      • Mr. Bob

        Hey walter numnuts, the flags were installed at a harley dealership by harley technicians. The warranty needs to be honored based upon that fact alone. Also where is the hd research to support this crackpot theory that flying flags destroys a clutch due to drag but installing a sidecar and basically more than doubling the drag with a passenger and the sidecar itself would not cause a clutch to fail. Nice try but you and hd with your crackpot speculative theories do not hold up against scientific proof.

      • Ernie Siggs

        And…. ? if there is no Windshield , Not everyone rides with one. ?? What kind of drag is that ?? your argument has no weight. YOUR KUNG FU IS WEAK!! lol If a flag is enough to kill a clutch I
        might as well sell My FXDWGI because if it can’t take the stress of a flag?? What good is it with two up and no wind screen ?? oh and a Tbag and all the gear strapped on when ya head to Sturgis.

  • Cavan

    Is the wind resistance that the flags create more resistance than a second rider (passenger)? This is a minimum of a 1.6 Litre engine which has had no problem carrying an entire chassis and vehicular body along with 4 passengers. But 2 flags cause enough resistance to blow the clutch on a bike whos rider has seen more miles than most people in the world. Experience says a lot. And Harley- Davidson is copping out!!!

      • John Bramham

        Aerodynamics – are you for real, Jeanette? Like most unfaired bikes, Harleys have a drag coefficient only slightly better than a mobile cattle fence; add to that a 200+ lb rider sat bolt upright with his hands well above his head, and it becomes a moving aerobrick. So you’re trying to tell us that adding a few flags to the plot is gonna have any significant effect on the amount of power needed to drive the thing? Enough to push a clutch over the edge? Nah, it won’t happen. Also remember this; power requirement to raise the speed is exponential – i.e. it rises as the square of the increase in speed, so it needs four times the power to roll a bike at 60MPH than it does at 30MPH; even allowing that his flags DO exert a measurable braking force relative to the whole setup, those forces would be miniscule by comparison with the resistance of the bike/rider as a whole. The inference is clear – Harley is trying to wriggle out of honouring their product warranty on a “technicality” that has little or no basis in fact. Class action lawsuit seems to be the way forward here!

  • Army Bob

    Walter I do not agree with you. Flags craft some extra drag and strain on the motor cycle, though not as much when you carry a passenger on your bike. I weigh about 200 lbs and my wife weighs approximately 160. I have a hard time believing a passenger puts less strain on the bike then the flags do. Its just another another excuse for Harley not to honor the warranty.

  • SteveM

    Thank God your attitude is not representative of all Americans Walter Sturgeon. This is simply the same, as the insurance companies voiding policies, because the owner has applied stickers to a bike. It’s a cop out, pure and simple. As for ‘half wit Brit’, that just shows your lack of intelligence.

  • Mark D. Infield

    You are right. If you have ever ridden a bike with a side car, you would understand. I know Dave. He is a good man and it would be stupid for Harley to make an enemy of him over the price of a clutch.

  • Grant McFarlane

    the bike designed for 2 people saddle bags wind screen side car other stuff. drag of that stuff out weigh drag of 2 flags. Harley product is inferior. warranty is stand behind product or show inferior product.

  • David Gregory

    Sit in the back of a pickup truck with two big ass flags on poles. See how fast the truck needs to go before you can’t hold on any longer. It doesn’t take much. HD already gave this guy a brand new bike free when they put his old one in the museum.

    • Sheldon folf

      But we ain’t talking about big as flags just 5′ x 3′ and that’s bigger than I expected but no way is that a big as flag

  • xenubarb

    HAHAHAHA…Hardley Ableson, hardly able to drag a flag without breaking down. You guys and your loyalties make me laugh. It’s a soulless corporation with good PR. Until things like this come up.

  • Grant McFarlane

    Harley product reputation requires a independent evaluation of drag.
    Has Harley did a test to show 2 flags drag ? The drag of 2 passenger wind screen side car? I like see the drag data compared 2 flags versa 2 riders side car wind screen.

  • apstore12

    I have a Harley Engineer sitting in my office right now. I read this story to him and he says the bikes clutches are made to handle much more drag than just a man and some flags. They design them to handle large riders, with large passengers, and even tow trailers combined with the two.
    He has also stated that fixed objects such as saddle bags create more drag than a limp item which is moving with wind turbulence.

    Sorry Harley… your own Senior Engineer at the Milwaukee plant thinks your not living up to your good name….

  • mary

    I can see Harley Davidson’s point, but really shame on you Harley Davidson. My dads local Harley dealer supports the patriot riders and they all ride flags mounted!

  • Ed

    Ive got an AMF 71 shuv and its running couldnt give me one of these new HDs with its Chinese and Japanese parts..give the guy his clutch..he gave you his loyalty..

  • Tom Loughlin Jr.

    I am a fat guy. 255 lbs. If I ride two up on my Yamaha FJ 1200 with another reasonable sized individual…say 185…The thing doesn’t even breathe hard. Harley’s englneer has it flat right. Come on, cheeseballs. stop lying and fork over.
    This is NOT a recommendation to buy a Harley when Indian satisfies the Buy American motive with a better motorcycle.

  • james smith

    Mr. Sturgeon, for harley to deny this claim they would have to have spificaly written this in their warrenty policy. Harley is cheaping out on this one!

    • Walter Sturgeon

      I’m starting to think some of you people are just plain dumb. Here are the warranty exclusions from my Harley manual. I don’t have to get past the 2nd sentence to see an exclusion that pertains to this situation. In addition, Harley-Davidson and Harley-Davidson dealers are not one in the same. It’s just like GM and GM dealers.

      This limited warranty will not apply to any motorcycle/sidecar as follows:

      Which has not been operated or maintained as specified in the Owner’s Manual.

      Which has been abused, neglected, misused, improperly stored, used “off the highway,” or used for racing or competition of any kind.

      Which is not manufactured to comply with the laws of the market in which it is registered.

      Which has off-road or competition parts installed to enhance performance, or has other unapproved modifications (even if these modifications include genuine Harley-Davidson parts and accessories that are not approved for use on your motorcycle). These modifications may void all or part of your new motorcycle/sidecar limited warranty. See an authorized Harley-Davidson dealer for details.

      Acts of God, war, riot, insurrection, natural disasters, including, but not limited to, nuclear contamination, lightning, forest fires, dust storms, hail storms, ice storms, earthquakes, floods, or for other circumstances out of Harley-Davidson’s control.

      Which has been in an accident, collision, dropped or struck.

  • james smith

    I guess this is what harley does to further the the industry of sales and serrvice. seems the Harley has a very poor track record when it comes to warrenty problems. The flags are not the issue here, Thier unlimited milage is, Harley should be proud that thier clutch went that far…..

  • Monarq

    Here is an obvious Loyal customer who loves his country and HD. He promotes the very freedoms and culture that HD was blessed with to be able to exist. To the point, the warranty spells out the limitations of its coverage however, like in all things legal, there are exceptions and based on the fact that the HD dealership installed the mounts, there should be some agreement to resolve the claim

  • Larry v

    What part of the clutch went bad? The discs or a hydraulic failure? I’ve never seen a clutch covered under any warranty. It’s a wear and tear item. Same as tires and brake pads. The clutch master and slave should be covered but not the clutch basket.

  • Michael Morgan

    It’s just like their recalls… ooops what recalls. HD has problems and they choose to ignore them instead of fixing them, they would put their customers at risk instead of admitting to a cheap product. Plain and simple!

  • louie

    Do you know a couple years. Back this Vet was hit by a 4 wheel cage and los one of his legs .That’s why he on trike he was doing just fine flying flags on two wheel.Trikes got issues.

  • Randy

    I don’t get it the clutch is engaged. How would the flags cause it to slip. Is warranty denied if you have too heavy a rider and passenger. Typical Harley scam

  • Cheri

    I agree with Don Hinkle you should be giving this man a new bike just for the press an it’s the right thing to do ! He represent his country on your bike a you should praise him not treat him badly. !!
    What is HD coming to ??

  • Armondo Loretto

    I am a Harley Davidson Tech @ a dealership here in California and Legally Harley is right..However the decision and reasoning is BS. The Clutch didn’t burn out because of the flags, it was probably just worn from mileage. Flags are not going to create more drag than a wind shield, fairing, saddlebags, sidecars ,passengers or trailer. Even wind deflectors which are a Harley product create motre drag than a flag. Walter and Craig you are just a douchebags….to the other guy who thinks Harley Techs only make $12 an hour(are you kidding me!?) They probably left you primary fluid out on purpose because you’re an A~HOLE…Harley you really skrewed the pooch on this one…Yet the Guy ramins a loyal “Harley Guy”. Bikers should unite behind this guy and petition Harley to reverse thier decision. There is strength in numbers….BIKERS UNITE!

  • Joe joe

    So being myself a 320 lbs man, does that mean j would void mine? Now mind you mine is way out of warranty but just the principal. I’ve worked my whole life to get my harley. 14 motorcycles later I finally purchased my first one. I’ve been very proud of what I’ve accomplished and worked towards but now I’m feeling a little embarrassed to support such a company. If his flags were going to void his warranty then maybe before they were installed by a harley dealership they should’ve explained to him that it would do so.

    • Grant McFarlane

      I agree all Harley riders have to clean shaven Guys long hair require a pony tail ! no ribbons passenger riders with long hair have to shave legs ! Poor bikie need to clean no bug guts !@ what a drag Harley under powered may blow its guts. No warranty face it it harley

  • Peter Carreiro

    If the flags are enough to hurt the clutch, then the engine should have given out from the extra labor. the engine would be overheating…. that is, unless the clutch is not up to par with the power of the engine. Harley should honor the warranty!!!

  • chilsam

    Hmmm that’s the way they roll eh? Well Harley knowingly sell’s a defective product by selling bikes without crashbars.They were sued and lost on this point 30 + years ago but it was hushed up.

  • john meade

    So you can carry luggage and a passenger on any Harley with warranty and your ok, sounds kinda absurd to me,cant get warranty repairs cause of a couple of flags with mounting hardware installed by an H.D. dealer someone at Harley needs to give their head a shake what a joke.

    • David Sinclair

      Harley go through a lot, I don’t believe that a couple of flags can cause a breakdown, maybe Harley should go back to old school.
      I’m Harley all.the way but this is just stupidity.

  • Gmcguire

    I had a similar experience with Harley, the problem was that the dealer was repairing all the things wrong with the bike without turning it into HD. So when I had a major claim for existing problems that I was having, HD turned down the warranty repair. All is well though, the dealer bought back my bike and I have a brand new one. It was frustrating but worked out in the end.

  • James D

    I work for Harley-Davidson at a privately owned dealership. I deal with warranty work everyday. I know the warranty policies like the back of my hand. First, there is absolutely nothing pertaining to “wind drag” in any policy. Tell me this, if “wind drag” was an issue then why would there be huge fairings and wind screens on the front of some of the motorcycles? In addition Unless he rode 2.5 million miles in less then 2 years, the factory warranty (which is fender to fender coverage against factory defects) has expired. If he got an “Extended Warranty”, which is covered in 7 year increments by an OUTSIDE COMPANY, and covers powertrain, electrical, and non-wearable parts (not including tires, fluids, or brake pads). Meaning that H-D is only the middle man on that coverage. So if Extended Warranty denied his claim, his fight is with them, seeing how it’s them who he payed for coverage. Was he denied by the Dealership (all of which are privately owned) or with the company providing his warranty? Lastly, if he opted for an Extended Warranty, his vehicle would have had to undergo an inspection, and if the flags were and issue, it would have been noted and he would have been denied the warranty most likey.
    It all just doesn’t add up from Harley’s side. It sound like his issue is with the company that provides his Extended Warranty.
    Either way, respect on the miles and keep riding.

    • Mr. Bob

      James, isn’t that so-called extended warranty really more of an extended service agreement?? That was my experience with my Ford Truck a couple years back. While they may call it an extended warranty when they sell it to you, you discover when you need to use it that it is truly just an extended service agreement. But the harley dealership still has to be the ones doing any work on the bike and the 3rd party may be the ones who deny or approve the coverage? In my case the Ford dealer simply doesn’t notice a leaky pinion seal and loose ball joints just prior to reaching the mileage limit of the service agreement, but suddenly discovers those needed repairs about 900 miles later after surpassing the mileage limit on the extended service paln.

  • steve walker

    Well I ownn a harley but now there using japan parts vickory is not be careful harley ur customers are proud people but wont be shoved around
    I fly an american flag put on with zip ties they they didnt say anything to me when I took my bike in

  • Randy Rothwell

    I find this very disturbing! Harley just wants to go out of business. They aren’t very smart. This could have Bern a perfect advertisement for Harley Davidson and the once American made motorcycle. They’re made because of the American flag because Harleys as we all know is not really American anymore. They sold out to, cheaper parts like Chinese, Indonesia,etc. I love my Harley but after reading stuff like this, I think next bike I buy will be an American made Indian or Victory. Harley went to cheaper parts and charges more for their bikes and this veteran only wanted his clutch and Harley comes up with an excuse not to fix. This is a common problem with Harley Davidson. This is sad to see Harley going down. Just sad.

  • gary pasquale

    really a flag ! you can have two people on the bike and bags but no flags ! i have always wanted a HD but if these are the games they play I will stick with my american made honda vtx 1800f2 2006

  • Dwayne Hopkins

    Ha! A Harley can’t take the strain of flags!!! I tow a 300 lb plus trailer with a 1988 GoldWing!!!! AND it has flags!!!! Are Harley engineers really that incompetent? Or just that stupid? Or do the lawyers run Harley now?

  • Kirk simmons

    I just have one simple question to add to the discussion, if he had purchased a HD trailer and put it behind the trike and painted the flags on it…. Would harley say the same thing? Not good HD…. Not good.

  • TIm Fontaine

    We deny our Patriots and vets so much.
    What ever happened to standing behind those who stood for us!!!
    If he rides to Raleigh I’ll pay to fix his bike.
    We here stand with, beside and behind our vets and patriots.

  • HD Ridr

    I had inhouse warranty work done a couple of years ago. It required a complete lower end rebuild. Two years later I am having it redone on the top side because when they pulled everything apart and put it together they didn’t replace the piston rings with new ones!! Needless to say, the work is being done by a private individual who I trust whole heartedly with my ride as others do also!

  • really

    BS………. Come on Milwaukee. Your windshields have have more drag and how about it a rider and passenger. Fix the man’s bike. The fact he has ridden 2.5 million miles should be a testimony.

  • Walter Sturgeon

    You people are idiots! You do realize that this wouldn’t be a Harley Davidson Warranty, don’t you? You do realize the Dealerships who install stuff are not part of Harley Davidson, don’t you? You do realize that being a Veteran, which I am, shouldn’t qualify you for Free Stuff or make you different from anyone else. Wise-up people!

    • Mr. Bob

      Oh really walter numnuts??? Then when someone purchases a bike from harley do they go straight to the factory to do so, or do they go to a dealership to do so? And if they need warranty work which harley will actually cover, is that work done at a dealership or in someone’s garage? And do mechanics who are employed by harley dealerships have to be certified as harley factory trained, or can they just take an online course for general motorcycle repair and be hired by the hd dealership with that type of certification???

    • Mr. Bob

      Hey numnuts walter, being a veteran does qualify you for health care at VA facilities. I suggest you take full advantage of that and get some help from a VA psychiatrist.

  • zeldalynn

    If the clutch went out at 2.5 million miles why wouldn’t they cover that? They probably don’t even know how long a clutch should last if he has the most miles on his bike. Harley Davidson just honor your warranty for a vet and a loyal customer!

  • J. YeAgee

    Clutches are wear and tear items and unless a company specifically states so, clutches are NOT covered under warranty.

  • Bob Lewis

    So if Harley-Davidson feels that flags put to much wind drag on the motor-transmission, etc and the technicians who put the flag holders on the bike aren’t held accountable, what does the manufacture have to say about humans sitting upright in the seat, blocking all that wind, do for the wear and tear on its drive train?

  • BigJim

    I’m headed out to the Chicago bike show later today, going to let all the riders out there know that a Harley wont even pull two flags!
    It’s a shame, all I have ever ridden was Harleys, guess it’s time for this Ol’ guy to buy an Indian!

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  • Fred Spain

    Maybe for the HD MoCo the many stars and stripes are too heavy for a USA build motorcycle.

    Ask Indian and Victory if they bother.

  • William Reece

    I have to say that it speaks volumes of this man who has served his country, put all on the line to defend her, and rides a true American motorcycle reguardless of where some of the parts might be made…I too ride a Harley Davidson, and share his love for my country and my motorcycle. And even though I’m not a veteran of the military, it’s not for lack of trying. I was denied service to my country because of an accident on the very motorcycle I love so much. Proud that my father, and my son are both veterans. So I have to say this to Harley Davidson…don’t you think that with all the things this country denies her veterans, that this company and it’s product that is loved sooo much by people who’s love and pride for the claim “American Made” should, reguardless of technical reason…honor this veterans pride in his motorcycle??? What’s the price of a clutch compared to the price of the life he put on the line for his country…and the freedoms she has that allows your company to boast that very claim “American Made”… just sayin!!!!

  • huddle

    I guess if he hauled his Ole Lady that extra drag would also ruin the clutch.This is Bulls#hit and Harley Davidson should be ashamed of themselves and discipline this dealer. Letters to corporate from supporters on this matter could cure this problem.

  • Tim Groves

    When riding through town, or at low speeds, wouldn’t create enough drag to damage the clutch. The problem would be he’s too lazy to remove the flags when he’s traveling at highway speeds. The only defect here is the loose screw on the seat.

  • Rick Barnes

    Harley has forgot about people it’s all about money. I was 1000 miles away from home one year and I needed my back belts tighten up its a custom aftermarket bike, I stopped into a Harley shop this old-timer told me they was not allowed to work on it because it wasn’t a Harley, but he said the manager was not there and the brain it in real quick and he would tighten the belt. Got it in and the manager came back, he started yelling at the old-timer for having that bike in the shop made he get it out. The old-timer through me his keys to his truck and told me he had tool in their. When I got done he told me no matter where I was if the bike broke down even 10 miles from my house to call him and he would come pick me up and take me rest of the way home. That’s the way it used to be in the old days. But not now …THANKS HARLEY for only thinking about them $$$$$$$$

  • Don Scheiner

    …..Oh, but a windshield, leg guards, tourpak, saddlebags, sidecar, towing a trailer, & riding 2-up all at the same time won’t put too much “drag” on the trans, and they’ll honor your warranty (provided you bought all those accessories and labor costs, approx. $8,500.00-$9,000.00) at your friendly neighborhood Harley dealership………they’re as un-American as our president these days

  • Sarah

    Harley-Davidson I thought a lot of you until this and did love Harley-Davidson products–no more until you honor his product. Bad publicity!!

  • Swamp Thing

    If a flag creates more resistance than a rider OR A SECOND RIDER, I will kiss your HONDA and call Harley Davidson a bunch of low life scums

  • reverend ecook

    That’s why I wrench my own father and grandfather wrenched their own bikes,and I have 3 daughter’s that ride,and guess what? They fix their own.but then again,we all took the time to learn how to maintain our own.and have proudly boycotted HD for over 30 years

  • eodrider

    Interesting that with this article also poped up another headline about The Motor Co issuing a recall for 126,000 bikes for clutch issues. Fix the man’s bike H-D.

  • james

    Harley and it’s Corp is one of the many reasons I ride a victory. Most american made bike. This is ridiculous especially because a Harley dealer mounted the flags for him. Ride on. Godbless you and amercia. Thank you for all you have done as a soldier. And thank you for flying the flags and representing america. It’s a clutch they should just fix it. Ridiculous.

  • james

    Harley and it’s Corp is one of the many reasons I ride a victory. Most american made bike. This is ridiculous especially because a Harley dealer mounted the flags for him. Ride on. Godbless you and amercia. Thank you for all you have done as a soldier. And thank you for flying the flags and representing america. It’s a clutch they should just fix it. Ridiculous.

  • MD

    Harley turning down Vets because of Flags?????????????F’ed up to say the least pull your head out Harley the Vets buy more bikes than anyone you fools!

  • tbone

    HD, what a bunch of wusses. If flying flags is going to affect a bike so badly that the clutch fails, then maybe they should re evaluate their product and make it better. The drag here isn’t the flags, it’s HD. They are a stupid company. I couldn’t even exchange a brand new pair of gloves with the labels still on them, given as a gift on xmas from medium to large. YOU KNOW WHAT HD SCREW YOU FOR EMBARRASING YOURSELVES SO BADLY. Your just a motor cycle company. Get with it and take care of the people who patronize you.

  • BOBD

    just like they will sell you the hitch and light to pull trailer. But if they find you have pulled a trailer behind your motorcycle the warranty is voided. Double standard. will sell you the High dollar items but will not honor warranty.

  • Rocky

    i rode a hog for 30 plus years now they bulid junk and do not stand behind it just ask around moters blowing up at 350000 miles bad cam barrings inferior parts ect. ect. ect. i got rid of mine and now own a triumph best bike i have evere had! screw you h-d!

  • Carter Barnett

    I have written Harleys over 200,000 miles in 12 years. I have a 2012 trike with extended warranty and I have never had a problem getting it honored. I know also know that to close the lower fairings put more drag on the bike than does a flag! this is ludicrous. Harley needs to step up and do the right thing!

  • randy

    oh maybe we should check see what weight restriction they have maybe ur max load is a 97 lb weekling so as not to overwork these new harleys glad i own two old ones that dont have nor need warranty

  • mike

    Clutches are not a warranty concern at all. They are normal wear items.
    And dealers can sell whatever they want, even if it will hurt warranty claims.

    And at 2.5 million miles?! Even pistons and cylinders would then be concidered as wear items that would not be warrantied.

  • Dick Goodrick

    I do not believe HD would win this in a court of law. They have the burden of proof that the flags caused the problem. For sure HD has lost this in the court of social media. Seems short sighted by HD.

  • HD Rider

    The marketing / PR person at HD should be fired. Talk about missing out on a golden marketing opportunity for promoting bikes! Instead, they give the guy the finger on a very lame, and incorrect technicality. They should’a given this Vet a new bike, a billboard and scenes in a commercial.

  • Darren

    After a specific period of time that you don’t seem to improve, your mentor should then realize that your motivation problem
    is intrinsic. I actually do believ ethis is a problem for people today.
    Yoou will feel accepted, appreciated and fully understod by a
    person who is inspired.

  • Essie

    The most beautifully-designed and handcrafted corsets, in addition, may look deceptively simple:
    but these laced-up beauties are fastened uusing eye and hooks and the vertical bpning will ensure that thhe rigbht support is given to the adventurous
    woman. Even clothing for regular wear is available in these stores.
    Many brides are great fans of the corset and it is amazing to see the number of brides
    wearing a corset or corset dress.

  • Hourwaist

    With the steel corsets in use, their longevity is
    ssured annd people use it repeatedly for various occasions.
    Most of these corsets are coming back again with ann disposition that they have didn’t
    have before. The same year she was also number one on “Moviefone”s” “The 25
    Hottest Actors Under 25.

  • Ken

    Impossible amount of mileage to still be under warranty. 357,000+ per year avg for 7 yrs and warranty would be void at that point.

  • Frank Hopkins

    I have put 3 clutches in my FLSTFI since I bought it new in 2003. The first at 18,00 miles the second at 30000 and then installed an after market Joker clutch which has been on since 2006. I now have 176000 on the bike. And the Joker is still strong.

  • Mike

    First off, God bless this Vet for his service. The problem here however is misinformation. Harley Davidson has a TWO YEAR unlimited mileage warranty that you can supplement with added 5 year supplement coverage through an insurance type of contract. This clutch would NEVER be covered under factory warranty as it is a wearable item like a tire or brake pads. End of discussion. There is no story here.

  • Steve

    Flag drag is BS…Is crash bar rain guard drag an issue? I question the integrity of this artice.

  • JustJack

    I guess if his wife / GF were riding on the back and caused a little drag H-D would also deny the warranty since she’s not a genuine H-D part either.
    Honda forever!!

  • Chad

    Well i agree that the flags cause drag. But the CLUTCH is what the problem is. You use the clutch to take off, ahift and disengage it to stop. Howw the hell are the flags causing drag while taking off from a stop? And When you shift, you dont slip the clutch either. So how is the drag an issue? I own 2 harleys myself and i can tell you that nothing with the Harley name on it is cheap. This is a very rich company. I feel like they should fix the mans bike. Obviously he spends several dollars with them. GIVE THE MAN A BREAK!

  • Anne Carr

    Come on Harley.How much money do you think this man has put into HD in that many miles ? I know how much I’ve contributed to you and I’m no where near his record..Come on. Harley Up .

  • Mike Howey

    So why does all Harley Davidson Shops sell flag to be installed on the motorcycle?? HD part # 61400074 at $64.95. also they have listed other flags.

  • Rick Smith

    Harley is heading for a fall and not to far down the line!!!!! I started riding when Harley was heading for bankruptcy court, couldn’t give the things away. They put together a marketing scheme appealing to the Nam Vet, using a patriotic theme. This gave them a solid platform to save the company, the would last for years. They built in value retention, by limiting the number of bike made in a given year. In short, they build a new tradition for the Harley name.

    Fast forward to the 80’s, when the long tradition started to go to the wayside. They started building cost-cutting engines that were not reliable. Even that did not shake the Harley rider!!! However, the 90’s would be the start of the death spiral for the company. This is when the changed the marketing again and who they were targeting. This was a time when the “Old” Harley owners were going through difficult financial times. So what did Harley do?? They ditched the faithful Harley Owners, switching over to the “Trendy” crowd who were not experiencing money problem. The started pumping out bike as fast as they could, destroying the re-sale market. They started focusing on trinkets to sell to this “Trendy” crowd, instead of focusing on the bike itself. This destroyed the Heart and Sole of the “Old” faithful Harley Owner.

    So here we are today, Harley is heading for disaster again and it’s plain for all to see. The American made bike is a thing of the past and so is the person who had pride in owning one. Companies like Victory, are starting to feed on the carcass of the once great company. Many of the newer Harley riders are met with shaking heads, as they are clueless of what a true “Biker” use to be. They have been lead to believe, buying more Harley “Stuff” brings them into the Brotherhood of the Biker. Wrong!!! There was a time when we bought new bikes, only to tear them apart and make them OUR bike. Today, this is almost unheard of anymore. Instead, it’s a race to see who can wear the most Harley “Stuff”.

    I hope Harley goes back to their “Old” Traditions!!! Until then, I guess I’ll just eat rice!!

    • Nick W.

      Rick, the comment you posted is the best one on here & sums it up most accurately!. I too remember when it was that way & is all to sad to see what it has become today.Harley sold out to corporate greed long long ago….

  • Lawrence Friestad

    Such Baloney. Sue them in small-claims court. I did that with General Motors on one of their phoney denials on my pickup and won handily. I’d be so ashamed if a motorcycle engine of that size can’t take the wind resistance of a flag! Have they become sissy bikes. I was around Harley’s in the 60’s when they were a Real Mess if you rode hard (over 65 mph). I have way more fight in me that that!

  • Hodaddyh

    Way to go Dave I don’t think it was the flag it was the drag of American patriotism that must have done it. Keep the dirty side down Dave

  • Klemens-Hans

    My flag is 15 x 10 – does this affect the guarantee too? Or where does Harley set the trigger point? What’s about the big T-Bag behind me? Is Harley now such a sensitive bike? Good to know when I decide my next bike. Better an Indian?

  • Tom

    The mystique of Harley Davidson? Umm, they are under powered, poor preforming, built on old technology, and have 25% Chinese Content. It seems the only mystique about Harley Davidson to me is its ignorant riders that don’t wear helmets, drink and drive, and like to make noise and all dress the same….whats up with that?

  • John


    Probably the same suits that decided to outsource ‘genuine’ Harley Davidson clothes and accessories to China

  • Monte

    Yep,,, owned a couple Harleys in the past,,, one dealer ( I had spent upwards of $35,000 plus) said he wouldn’t install a back rest for me, and it was a Harley Backrest because I didn’t buy from him. although he would still be making the cost of shop labor,,,, don’t deal with him any longer,,, and if I buy another M/C it may be a Honda or even a BMW. Harley can shove it!

  • Robert Rivard

    Harley sold all their rights and tooling to the Japs in 1929 on the V-Twin motor. They were strapped for cash during the Great Depression. The japs then built 18,000 motorcycles for their military!!! Guess who we fought in WW2. Think about that???

  • Ann

    Dave is a motorcycling icon. He is a Marlon Brando or Peter Fonda. He is an amazing and wonderful man on a Harley Davidson and HD should take care of him. What a disappointing story for Memorial Day weekend. Ride on Dave!!!

  • kenneth cory

    I have 127000 miles on my sportster they don’t offer any thing to me ,but they use me to sell more bikes ,it is a 2003 883 r

  • Rita

    Sometimes HD really does just stand for hundred dollars. I have had 2 Harleys…still have my ’98, but this decision just shows how much Harley has changed. They now are representative of corporate GREED. Boo on you Harley Davidson. You just bought a huge heap of BAD publicity!

  • Dale Richardson

    Its a trike, 3 wheels…not a bike, 2 wheels…maybe Harley need a HD Clutch for their Trikes!

  • Shed

    It says it the catalogue flying flags makes your warranty voidable

    The argument that the dealer put them on is garbage the dealers are there to sell stuff.

  • shankapottamus

    if you set the precednt then where would it end ..2 million milers…1 million 500 k get my drift

  • Bobby44

    Harley and Victory owner and army vet– Love both bikes. But why do so many people ride japs? Recently a man I know took his 4 yr old Yamaha to a dealer out of state. ( He rides LOTS) Needed a clutch. He is loaded heavy with a sidecar and small trailer. The dealer was not able to do the work the same day and he had to overnight. The next day when he picked up the bike the dealer said he was sorry for the wait and the clutch and labor was complimentary! Maybe customer service is a clue?
    Several years ago I got a new Harley and wanted the dealer to install free flowing exhaust. He supplied and installed them. Then told me I had no engine warranty from Harley! Love the bike but hate the BS from head office.
    Have a heart clowns.

  • Mike

    Some here doubt if rode these miles, he has, I know this man. heck out Iron butt riders, he is listed many, many times. He has done 10×1000 (actually it was 11×1000)

  • Mark

    Pretty poor business Harley. This man has ridden over 2.5 million miles on one of your products, he’s an American Vet, flying the american flags. THAT IS YOUR MARKET DEMOGRAPHIC. Even with you wanting to void his warranty and claim he’s still a Harley man. Seriously you should be giving this man a new bike custom painted with the american flag or at least design something to help avoid issues like this in the future and market the hell out of him, his story, and your product. Instead your getting a ton of bad press over what would cost you almost nothing to repair. Pretty dumb business decision.

    • Danny Eason

      If the dealer upfront explained that this would void his warranty fine. If he did not, Harley or the dealer should make this good. Honesty and upfront truth omission is totally bull and should not be condoned by any of us.

  • Tom Smolinsky

    Unfortunately, now that I have more insight to the “Harley Experience” I am hearing more and more of this nonsense. My son bought a brand new Harley on April 29th. As his first Harley Experience, he took the hard sell on the so-called “MVP Package” (plus extended warranty, priority maintenance, etc). This cost this 20 year old kid a pretty penny on top of the expense of the brand new bike. At 112 miles, 2 out of 3 front motor mount screws FELL OUT of the bike. Even 112 miles and 3 days after the big sales spiel, he was refused a loaner citing his age (20). While this is pretty legit, where was this information when he invested in the package? Then, he had a tire pop on the way to Laconia, NH for Bike Week.. While they did eventually take care of this issue, the service tech commented that he was “lifting the front tire” which was categorically not true. This fact became evident today on the third issue when he took the bike in because of highway vibration and was AGAIN denied a loaner AND was told that they would have the bike at least 7-10 days (so much for priority service, paid for or not).

    So, it seems that the up-sell for MVP/Priority is a scam. So while we will continue to love the Harley legacy and the community of riders that favor these bikes, let’s all beware of what appears to be a steep down-slide in quality, quality of service or evidence that Harley Davidson (and their dealerships) are backing their product. It seems that they like so many other enterprises are taking advantage of their fans and paying customers. To hear this story of the 2.5M mile customer just further reinforces for me that the upcoming purchase of our next 3 family bikes (me, my brother and my wife) will at least be looking in the direction of the Indian and Victory and CERTAINLY will not fall for the up-sell of Harley’s version of “MVP” or “Priority” as they apparently have a different definition than I do.

    Buyer Beware!!

  • Cassie Starr

    I find it very disappointing and disheartening that Harley Davidson is using the fact that this gentleman is proudly flying the American flag and Marine Corps flag as an excuse to not cover something under warranty. We are having our own issues right now getting a transmission that was installed by our local HD shop (and clearly had a manufacturer defect) covered under warranty. I hope that H-D does the right thing.

  • Joe Edwards

    Why don’t you all look at it this way and it will nullify all the stupid arguments. All bikes have a max capacity for load, if he’s a solo rider, for the most part, there shouldn’t be a question. The “drag” created by flags would be minimal compared to the difference of another passenger with their body in the wind. Who are they kidding? So you’re telling me that they actually weigh the owner and his passengers before warranty work as well? What does a guy do, not show up with his 300 lb girlfriend when the ranny goes and brings his 80 lb daughter with him to relieve all suspicion?

  • COOP

    it appears that the MOTOR COMPANY is L@@King for a LOOPHOLE to get out of a REPAIR … instead of STANDING UP for a WARRANTY that obviously does NOT state “except if you fly FLAGS” in the WARRANTY fine print …

  • SaintBfmc

    Thats Bull$hit! This is the dealer, not Harley! How else would they know he had flags on his bike unless the dealer made an issue out of it. Choose your dealer wisely!

  • Herb plunkett

    My 2008 ultra classic started blowing oil out the breather in the first 300 miles Harley dealer in Mandan ND would not fix it or make it right they had it in the shop twice I would go get it ride it home with the oil blowing out. I even called Milwaukee trying to get help no help I finally just sold it and bought a different brand so I could ride. I had been riding Harley for many years before this. They have cured me for good. Really sad to lose a life long customer in the name of greed

    • brian

      Any warrantor warranting a consumer product to a consumer by means of a written warranty must disclose, fully and conspicuously, in simple and readily understood language, the terms and conditions of the warranty to the extent required by rules of the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC has enacted regulations governing the disclosure of written consumer product warranty terms and conditions on consumer products actually costing the consumer more than $5. The Rules can be found at 16 C.F.R. Part 700.
      Under the terms of the Act, ambiguous statements in a warranty are construed against the drafter of the warranty.
      Likewise, service contracts must fully, clearly, and conspicuously disclose their terms and conditions in simple and readily understood language.
      Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.[7] This is commonly referred to as the “tie-in sales” provisions,[8] and is frequently mentioned in the context of third-party computer parts, such as memory and hard drives.

  • Scott

    That’s Harley for you…..outrageous prices for everything, then they screw the customer. After seeing so many fat hogs on the back of Hogs…..I doubt those flags caused any damage…..!!!! 2.5 million miles, just image the chase vehicle that follows him for break downs!!!!!

  • Becky

    For as long as I can remember, riding with my uncle Bob at 4 years old with toes tucked under the handle bars ànd gripping his arms tight I’ve enjoyed Harley davidson as an heirloom and life loñg great memories as far back as the late 50’s and early 60’s. Please, as sure as you have made billions from our ancestors as well as us and hopefully our children and their children….its in the blood….why can’t you see the error committed on greeds behalf and make right this wronged travesty? This bad PR is not the Harley Davidson I remember as a child and certainly not one of have my grandchildren remember! Let freedom ring and make right this wrong!

  • matt

    There is no way this is possible. if the article is correct that the warranty is for 7 years this means that he rode 978 miles everyday consecutively for 7 years in a row. I assume his clutch didn’t go out on the last day of his warranty period so the actual number of miles/day must be higher than that. While not impossible it is highly highly unlikely that the 2.5M claim is true.

  • AC

    Such a bonehead move by HD over some flags. They should see the marketing value of the durability of their product and customer loyalty after 2.5 million miles. Another bonehead blunder by HD is, backing the military is a huge part of their patriotism selling component. Why not use this to their marketing advantage?

  • JC

    That means no one can ride on the back because that causes resistance also. Boo on the Harley corp. for being money hungry. I have bought 6 harleys in the past 10 yrs…. What do you think will be my next bike??????

  • Jon paul

    What about the wind resistance from a windshield , or sattle bags or from a trailer ? Do thouse things void the warranty also ?


    Last time I checked Clutches are a wear and tear item that isn’t covered by any warranty company.

  • David Wendt

    Harley-Davidson motorcycles only have a 2 year factory warranty. I doubt that he put 2.5 million miles as stated in this article in 2 years. Also the local dealer does have other options to help this customer under their co-op program. Our H-D dealer does this on a regular basis. This article fails to list the year of this gentlemans bike. This dealer sounds like it has no customer service. Too bad for this veteran as we would of bent over backward for him. Also factory warranties never covers general maintainence items unless defect in workmanship.

  • Bob Yeager

    EPIC Failure in Marketing: Pay Close Attention:

    Imagine, you are Harley Davidson, the most popular motorcycle manufacturer in the world and your market consists of MANY retired vets and soldiers.

    You put out an epic feature length commercial (and a “go to HarleyDavidson. com to watch the full documentary) about a former U.S. Marine who has put over 2.5 million miles in riding Harleys.

    The flowing white beard dawning the flags of our great country and Marine Corps.

    This national hero calls in a warranty claim on a clutch and when you hear his story, you decide to give back. Send him a bike, a good paycheck and a new clutch, of course. Invite him to do a commercial and short documentary, showing the Harley not only pays attention to its customers, but also respects it’s vets. A true, patriotic company who provided the first fleet of motorcycles to U.S. soldiers in the first World War.

    Epic idea, right? It would be worth 10s of millions and cost them nothing to do.


  • kenny

    As usual Harley-Davidson as every excuse in the world not to stand by their stuff anytime anybody has a problem it’s always some kind of BS that goes with the Harley Davison

  • Teri connell

    Wow! Come on Harley!! Help this guy out! That is some pretty bad publicity right there! Isn’t being a vet and flying flags when you ride kind of an American symbol!!

  • marvin moore

    To ride 2.5 million miles it had to take more that the 2 years of factory warranty, therefor it went into a Extended service contract which is like insurance. They a betting that you will not ride or keep the bike that long and you are betting that you will. The Stealer Ships (woops!) Dealerships do not know how to word the concern correctly to get the job done correctly or the Extended Service does not want to pay for the repairs. It is very simple what you paid far exceeds what they want to pay.

  • ian McLeod

    First off how big are these flags? Never seen what size we are talking about. Seems we all surmize they are full size, they may been the 1/4 size you see. I do not believe the drag would cause the clutch to burn up. You see 2 up and all the gear people carry that would put more pressure on the clutch i would think. Harley just not covering just as other things. Own a Harley and few other bikes can say the Harley is no better or worse than the others.

  • ian McLeod

    oops they are almost full size should of looked closer. still do not think they would cause any major drag

  • Chris

    That’s a laid off crap! If 2 flags put to much drag on the clutch them 2 riders must make the bike fall completely apart!



  • Betty Weir

    This man has been flying flags on his Harley Davidson motorcycles for decades! Never before has this been a problem. He spoke at UW-EC more than twenty years ago and gave me ride around the parking lot on the back of his Harley. It was more than 20 years later, he stopped in at TTC in Trego, walked right up and knew exactly who I was and who my family was! He Amazing! For what this man has done for promoting Harley Davidson all these years? They should (at the very least!) give him a brand new one for free!

  • Joe

    With the reputation they have for producing poor quality bikes, anyone dumb enough to buy an HD gets exactly what he asks for.

  • Dave D.

    I have almost 60,000 my Road King Classic and have the same clutch and have flown flags on my bike as well. Warranty work would be much cheaper than bad press.

  • shorthair

    Harley Davidson has no warranty as far as I can tell. You are buying a bike as is. Even a new one.

  • GBA

    Get in touch with Indian Motorycles unlike Harley all Indian Motorcycles are made in the USA and they are fiercely American. I’m sure they will be glad to fix your bike or offer you something special because you carry our flag. Harley moving it’s manufacturing overseas and it’s disloyalty to the America flag should not be forgotten next time you upgrade your motorcycle.

  • Matthew

    Seriously …. how much does this guy weigh?? I mean the bike and motor has to have a weight capacity. If a man … or woman…. at max weight capacity creates less drag then fine …. but I have a hard time believing a few flags exceed the drag associated with the max weight rating associated with the bike. This should be able to be established quickly.

  • Bill

    205 million miles???? HD should reward him with a free TriGlide! C’mon HD, despite your corporate stupidity, you are America’s Motorcycle…start acting like it! Otherwise, maybe Indian or Victory will step in and give this Vet a new bike! You almost make me want to put some duct tape over my HD tank logos…

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